« US Agrees to Sell F-16s to Pakistan | Main | Suggested Web Browsing »

March 25, 2005

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83457376969e200d834579a3c69e2

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference DEL Makes A Prediction:

» Cross-Blog Conversation on the Pakistan F-16 Sale from tdaxp
A post at Dawn's Early Light is hosting an emerging discussion on America's planned arms sale to Pakistan. Pakistan, a truly terrible country, has its army working under rules of engagement that allows it to kill Americans. South Dakota's own Larry P... [Read More]

» Cross-Blog Conversation on the Pakistan F-16 Sale from tdaxp
A post at Dawn's Early Light is hosting an emerging discussion on America's planned arms sale to Pakistan. Pakistan, a truly terrible country, has its army working under rules of engagement that allows it to kill Americans. South Dakota's own Larry P... [Read More]

» F-16s can deliver nuclear weapons from The Acorn
From the horse's mouth Regarding the nuclear capability of the F-16s, he said that was no problem as most of the present-age aircraft are already capable of carrying nuclear weaponry. “We already have this capability.” [Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sa... [Read More]

» Robi & Nitin's Indian Ocean Horizons: 2005-04-1 from Winds of Change.NET
In this briefing: The Eternal Triangle (or Square?); Peeling the Skin off the Pakistani Onion; Peeling the Skin off India-Pakistan Relations; India, Energy, and Security; India - a Million Matinees Now; Keeping a Eye on Khan; The FBI is a Trusted Brand... [Read More]

» Robi & Nitin's Indian Ocean Horizons: 2005-04-1 from Winds of Change.NET
In this briefing: The Eternal Triangle (or Square?); Peeling the Skin off the Pakistani Onion; Peeling the Skin off India-Pakistan Relations; India, Energy, and Security; India - a Million Matinees Now; Keeping a Eye on Khan; The FBI is a Trusted Brand... [Read More]

» Robi & Nitin's Indian Ocean Horizons: 2005-04-1 from Winds of Change.NET
In this briefing: The Eternal Triangle (or Square?); Peeling the Skin off the Pakistani Onion; Peeling the Skin off India-Pakistan Relations; India, Energy, and Security; India - a Million Matinees Now; Keeping a Eye on Khan; The FBI is a Trusted Brand... [Read More]

» Robi & Nitin's Indian Ocean Horizons: 2005-04-1 from Winds of Change.NET
In this briefing: The Eternal Triangle (or Square?); Peeling the Skin off the Pakistani Onion; Peeling the Skin off India-Pakistan Relations; India, Energy, and Security; India - a Million Matinees Now; Keeping a Eye on Khan; The FBI is a Trusted Brand... [Read More]

» China Seeks Tech Cooperation With India from Citizen Z

Drudge links this ABC story today, indicating a Chinese effort to build stronger ties with India, coinciding with recent U.S. efforts to ... [Read More]

Comments

Bill,

You have an optimistic (from India's point of view at least) take on the matter.

But any analysis of China cannot ignore the 'indirectness' of China's strategy. It has cultivated Pakistan to indirectly keep India down, and North Korea to keep Japan and the United States down. It helped Pakistan with the nukes, and the North Koreans with the missiles, who then helped each other.

Putting US technology in Pakistan's hands clearly risks letting China have a rather uncomfortably close look at it. There's a precedent for it: during the Vietnam war era, Pakistan allowed China to take a rather close look at the F-104s that it had received from the US.

But hey, let's hope you are right!

I'll need time for your argument to sink in. However, my first thoughts...

1. Nitin is right that the China-Pakistan angle is important, but he misunderstands it. PRC-IRP-USA have an old working-alliance going back to Nixon. During the closing decades of the cold war the three worked together to check Soviet power. Nor is America overly concerned about Chinese acquiring technology -- Israel regularly works with China as an American proxy. I think Bush's care for Pakistan relates to this, and particularly the concern that if America abandons Pakistan it will reinforce a Beijing-Islamabad axis.

2. Robert is right that Rice is courting regional powers. But this was Powell's aim too, and he was very successful at it. Under GWB America never had better relationships with Russia, India, China, or Japan. It's this tradition which makes the Pakistan sale otherwise puzzling.

3. We have to be careful with talk of "containment." Bush is clearly trying to create a sustainable balance to China. But China is emerging as a force for good. Hedging our bets is not containment.

4. Bush's generally pro-democracy push always makes the sale strange. Pakistan is a terrible country, combining North Korean proliferation with Saudi repression with BS Saudi-style diplomacy. If America would be able to secure nuclear installations an Islamist government would be a step up from Musharraf.

Comparing this artical to your article on Cope India a couple of weeks ago really highlights a dramatic change in US policy in the region. coming from a military 'grunt' point of view, the sale of top US technology to Pakistan is scary. How much US technology and tactics will be discriminated how far? India already proved themselves (agian refrencing DEL artical a couple of weeks ago) far more advanced than we knew, how much more will this help more hostile nations advance? Thanks for the new perspectives, very thought provoking.

Razor

Nitin,

Your points about China's diplomatic moves are valid, however the proof of what I am arguing will have to wait to see whom India selects for the aircraft order. If India selects the US, after the United States made the move of selling F-16s to Pakistan, I truly believe it can only be because Sec. Rice offered a long term strategic partnership with India.

Rice speaks often of wanting US-Pakistan and US-India (non hyphenated between the India-Pakistan). There is no reason India cannot provide the better of two models for development in Asia between India and China. Since the US' principal threat in the Pacific in the future lies with North Korea and China (both Communist) nations, it would follow that the United States would try to counter-balance these threats especially with respect to China.

Why wouldn't India accept a US offer to promote it over China and accept the opportunity to begin buying high-tech American weapons instead of Russian and French designs? If the list of items for sale grows over time, the US would be a better supplier than the French or Russians, however the US would be a more fickle seller.

Of course, I could be wrong. But when India decides whom to buy from, I think we will see.

It is important to not underestimate the Bush Administration's goal of supporting and expanding democratic governments. India is a logical choice, when we are faced with an assertive and growingly aggressive China next door.

Best regards,

Bill Rice
Dawn's Early Light

Thanks again for your insight, Bill. As a Catholic I'm knowledgeable of China's repression. However, they are not a particularly aggressive state.

Over the past few years China has been pushing a "status quo" policy with Taiwan. Over the same period they have leaned on North Korea, but never encouraged any Pyongyang outburst. I don't believe they are interfering with US missions in Mongolia or the 'stans.

China is moving in the right direction in a lot of areas. We have to hedge against them, but we shouldn't be unduly frightened.

-Dan

Bill,

The deal which the US has offered India does make a lot of sense. The best evidence that India is considering it seriously comes from the worried Russian response.

But defence procurement is a politically sensitive affair in India (as in the United States). Be prepared to see the loony Left and India's own cold-war dinosaurs to create a lot of noise over this.

The good news is that India's defence minister has already made very positive noises about buying American gear.

But Dan's point about the US being little bothered about China getting its hands on advanced American technology bothers me a lot.

God, I'm rereading what I wrote, and slowly biting my tongue over the typographical errors. Nothing too bad, but accidentally typing Indonesia instead of India really highlights how tired I was!

I'm with Dan. The first assumption that needs addressing is whether China is a competitor or a potential ally. It's early days but the latter is more likely, especially given the closer economic ties betweent the two. Next is dealing with "rising India" - in that you're right that Rice is playing the next decade's game. Also China and India recognise each other's rise and our currently undergoing a rapid rapproachment over such issues as the border and Tibet. It's not about containment, it's about strategic balance.

Wow. The greatest blogger on Asian affairs in history agrees with me. This makes my day.

:)

surprised to see no dialogue on this update: http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050329/ap/d894p70o1.html

There are more acne treatments on the market than ever before and if you suffer from acne you really don't want to waste your time determing which acne product is most effective.

Luckily for you, we've tested and reviewed some of the most popular acne treatments available so you don't have to!
http://www.acne-review.net

Look for gentle cleansers that are sold as acne solutions. When you’ re evaluating skin cleansers for acne, include natural acne treatments in your search as well. For example, a soap made from Echinacea and other herbal ingredients is an effective antibiotic facial cleanser that helps fight acne and restore clear skin. Tea tree oil also has known antibiotic properties and serves as a mild anesthetic that will soothe the irritated skin.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

GodBlogCon '06

The Influentials

  • Coming Anarchy
    A brilliant 3 blogger site with a global perspective and sound thinking on events of the day.
  • Hugh Hewitt
    Radio Host, Intellectual, Conservative, Evangelical, Blogger
  • InstaPundit (Glenn Reynolds)
    The central blogosphere source
  • James Lileks
    Family Man, Inspired and Witty Columnist, an Inspiration and Patriot
  • Mickey Kaus
    Center Left, Connected, Blogger, Took the Boeing
  • Powerline
    Keeping the MSM in check, Smart Intelligent Political Analysis
  • Publius Pundit
    The single best place on the web for a democracy roundup of world events.
  • Real Clear Politics
    Center Right, best political website, Election polls & Analysis
  • Roger L. Simon
    Center Left, Supporter of the GWoT
  • Simon's World
    "East Meets Westerner" - Simon, an Aussie living in Hong Kong has Asia covered with great links and commentary.
  • The Belmont Club
    Acute Analysis of the GWoT, America's Friend
  • Threats Watch
    Excellent analysis by Steve Schippert and Marvin Hutchens about national security issues around the globe.
  • Tod Bolsinger
    husband, father, pastor, author, professor, adventure lover, and triathlete (non political)
  • Winds of Change
    Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory. - The Vanguard on the GWoT

Alliance

Blogs of Note

  • Between Worlds
    By blogger Bruce Chang, Between Worlds covers Asian-American relations with a piercing insight.
  • Blogs for Condi
    Interested in Condi Rice? This is the site for you with excellent links.
  • Citizen Z
    A centrist Democrat with sensible analysis of domestic and world affairs.
  • tdaxp
    Red State, National and Global Analysis from SD
  • EagleSpeak
    An insightful Milblog covering shipping, sea lanes and logistics and the war on terror.
  • The Adventures of Chester
    One of the finest MilBlogs with great links and indepth coverage
  • Little Red Blog
    Covering democratic movements around the world
  • MeiZhongTai
    An interesting blog on America-China-Tawain
  • The Acorn
    Indian foreign policy, and current affairs in the subcontinent
  • One Free Korea
    An opinionated blog on the need for regime change in North Korea with excellent analysis.
  • Quill News
    Editor, writer, ex-oil manager, ex-reporter with a good deal of thoughts on foreign policy
  • Election Projection
    Some of the best US domestic election coverage around run by a Scott a man of true character
  • The Word Unheard
    A former US Marine with a passion for "Foreign Policy, National Defense, Politics and the Media" living in NJ
  • The Red Hunter
    Covering Freedom & Democracy and America's interests in the War on Terror
  • WILLisms
    An extremely witty and beautifully presented poliblog on important issues of the day

Stats & Searches